Anyone here a flat earther?

[Pappy13]

Anyone been paying any attention to the whole flat earth theory and the recent trip to Antartica? I've been paying attention for about the last 6 months. If you're not aware flat earthers believe that the earth is flat and Antartica is basically a glacier wall that rings completely around the earth and holds in the oceans water. It's been well established and agreed to by both flat earthers and globers that there's a 24 hour sun (meaning it never sets) in the North in the summer, but flat earthers have maintained that doesn't happen in the south in the winter (because it can't with the flat earth model) while globers insist that it does because it's just the opposite of what happens in the North and is further evidence that the world is a globe. A guy with some money decided to resolve the dispute he'd pay for 1 flat earther and 1 glober to go to Antartica with him during the winter to see if there's a 24 hour sun in Antartica and document the experiment. If you're interested here's a link to check it out. The fallout from the experiment has been fun to watch to say the least.

https://www.the-final-experiment.com/

[Dave Gray]

I have a suspicious feeling that nobody is really a flat-Earther.  There are a few people who are legitimately mentally ill and maybe a couple of people so deep in the weeds that they think this.  But, the vast majority of this movement is trolls and grifters.

[Pappy13]

I have a suspicious feeling that nobody is really a flat-Earther.  There are a few people who are legitimately mentally ill and maybe a couple of people so deep in the weeds that they think this.  But, the vast majority of this movement is trolls and grifters.

For the most part I agree that there is a large contingent of trolls and grifters, but they can't all be grifters because there has to be someone to grift, you're not going to grift the other grifters. There are a couple groups of people that do truly believe the earth is flat and they make up a large part of the movement.  They generally fall into these 3 categories in my opinion.

1) Religious slant. Some are convinced that the bible says the earth is flat and therefore it must be because the bible is the word of God and cannot be wrong no matter what evidence there is to the contrary. This is not really all that surprising as there's no evidence God exists either but many believe so regardless. These people have a general disdain for the scientific community and believe they are liars.
2) Conspiracy theory slant. This is closely related to #1 but slightly different in my opinion. Many don't believe what anyone of authority says and believe they know better. The "authorities" are lieing and since the "authorities" say the world is a globe, it cannot be. Why else would NASA go to so much trouble to fake the shots of earth from space if the earth is really a globe? These people don't just believe the earth is flat, they don't believe that space exists, they don't believe the US put men on the moon in the 60's etc, etc, etc.
3) If I can't see it with my own eyes, I don't believe it. Many just won't believe something they can't see for themselves. The earth is too large to actually see the curvature of the earth while standing on the earth so they don't believe it. There's also a general misunderstanding of the direction "down". They reason that water needs something to "hold" it so there must be something that encircles the water to hold it into place. If the world were a globe the water would fall away from the earth. Again this is closely related to the others but again slightly different in my opinion, but it's also pervasive in the flat earth community.

There's also one more very important trait that makes up a large part of the flat earth movement for all 3 categories, arrogance. These people aren't dumb or mentally ill, just the opposite in most cases. They are highly intelligent and so sure of themselves and their own beliefs that no one can convince them otherwise even when presented with tons of evidence to the contrary. Before the recent trip to Antartica for instance many of the flat earthers stated emphatically that if you went to Antartica which they believe the government will prevent you from doing, you would find there is no 24 hour sun. As the trip started to become a reality many flat earthers changed their stance and started to say that a 24 hour sun in Antartica wouldn't disprove flat earth theory. Since these 7 people went and clearly documented the existence of the 24 sun in the Antartica, some of the flat earthers have now recanted and admit there is a 24 hour sun in Antartica but have come up with a variety of new reasons to explain away that fact despite the fact that their existing model doesn't support any of it. Others have come up with tons of new theories of how the 24 hour sun in the Antartica could have been faked. These are all thought out theories and conjecture for the most part (although completely wrong), but the question you have to ask yourself is why is it so important that the earth NOT be a globe? Why not just accept the fact that it might be a globe rather than put so much effort and thought into disproving that it is? Again it comes down to they have their opinion and YOU are not going to change it no matter what.

[Fau Teixeira]

These are all well thought out theories and conjecture for the most part, but the question you have to ask yourself is why is so important that the earth NOT be a globe? Why not just accept the fact that it might be a globe rather than put so much effort and thought into disproving that it is? Again it comes down to they have their opinion and YOU are not going to change it no matter what.

Not to derail, but it's not a coincidence that politics and religion works this way as well. Confirmation bias is a thing, mix that with a bit of sunk cost fallacy and indoctrination from a young age and you have people that won't budge no matter what facts or proof or logical arguments they are presented with.

Also, just because it's the way it is, doesn't mean intransigence in the face of overwhelming evidence isn't a mental illness. It's very much a psychological one.

[CF DolFan]

there's no evidence God exists either but many believe so regardless.

Anyone who reads to the "ends of the earth" and takes away that it means the world is flat is reaching. It means the farthest reaches of the world, signifying that God's power and influence extend everywhere.

As far as God not existing ... I think Pete Holmes explained it in the simplest of forms for the non believers to understand.
https://youtu.be/qJguU6sLR-8?si=iAoARibPh25cyxTp

The truth is there is a ton of evidence of the Bible and Jesus. Archelogy continues to prove it as well as Atheists who try and prove it is made up.  The former award-winning legal editor of The Chicago Tribune Atheist-turned-Christian Lee Strobel, who got his legal degree from Yale Law School, is a perfect example of someone who looked into it on his own. His book "The Case for Christ" is his evidence he discovered trying to convince his wife that Jesus was make believe. He was upset by her "new life" and went after it as if it was a legal case to be tried. It absolutely changed his life.

"Based on scientific evidence, I became convinced that there's a Creator of the universe; and based on historical data, I became confident [in] Jesus' claim to be the Son of God. - Lee Strobel

[Dave Gray]

CF, you're really bad at taking one person's anecdote and trying to use it as evidence.

That guy you're referring, who gives a shit?  He's a pastor since 1987 and writes religious books.

You seem to fall back on "See?  This liberal supports Trump!"  "See?  This atheist is now Christian!" as if any of that means fuck-all.   It's like logical fallacy 101.

[Fau Teixeira]

Saying the archeological evidence for jesus exists is like someone 2000 years from now having an archeological dig in new york city and claiming that as proof that spider man existed

[CF DolFan]

Saying the archeological evidence for jesus exists is like someone 2000 years from now having an archeological dig in new york city and claiming that as proof that spider man existed

That's exactly how it works.     There is a ton more evidence for Jesus Christ than Julius Caesar so I'm guessing you don't believe in him either.

I'll give you the biggest proof to me that Jesus is God. Jesus' followers all hid when he was crucified as they were definitely afraid. After the "supposed" resurrection they all died horrible deaths claiming Jesus was God. That is except for the one disciple who stayed with Jesus at the cross. No one knows what happened to John after he wrote Revelation. They were jailed, tortured, boiled and crucified ... some of them for over 30 years but ALL claiming Jesus is God and not one ever recanting to save themselves. This is documented outside of the Bible as well. So the question of life and death is .... what changed all of these men and some women into someone willing to suffer and die for many years just to tell a lie?

Also ... why did Saul the Pharisee go from killing Christians, including the first Christian martyr Stephen, to writing what would become 2/3rds of the New Testament? He also endured over 30 years of torture before he was finally killed. Doesn't seem like a great idea to switch teams to me unless you know its truth.

[Pappy13]

Anyone who reads to the "ends of the earth" and takes away that it means the world is flat is reaching. It means the farthest reaches of the world, signifying that God's power and influence extend everywhere.

I'm not a flat earther or one who reads the bible, but I believe the section they are referring to says the "circle of earth" or something along those lines however it doesn't actually say the earth is flat either. A circle is merely a 2 dimensional representation of a 3 dimensional sphere. You get a sphere by rotating a 2 dimensional circle on a 3rd plane. The Bible is also a translation into English so it's possible that the translation should have been sphere rather than circle, sometimes meanings in different languages don't have an exact match and could lead to ambiguity. So the bible doesn't actually say the earth is flat nor does it say it's a disk which is the flat earth model. What was originally meant by that reference could be interpreted in different ways in my opinion so the bible doesn't really answer the question one way or another.

As far as God not existing ... I think Pete Holmes explained it in the simplest of forms for the non believers to understand.
https://youtu.be/qJguU6sLR-8?si=iAoARibPh25cyxTp

Yeah, I was just generalizing and not making any specific claims. That's a whole other discussion that I don't want to get into in this thread. My point was that religion tends to be an area where people have very strong opinions and are not really open to claims from the scientific world, right or wrong. This is true for more than just is the world flat or a globe?

[CF DolFan]

CF, you're really bad at taking one person's anecdote and trying to use it as evidence.

That guy you're referring, who gives a shit?  He's a pastor since 1987 and writes religious books.

You seem to fall back on "See?  This liberal supports Trump!"  "See?  This atheist is now Christian!" as if any of that means fuck-all.   It's like logical fallacy 101.

No, its an example of a very well educated liberal guy actually looking into the facts and not just pretending there is no God. No one can force you to do it but the Bible says whoever seeks God will find Him. I've seen that so many times in real life with some of the biggest non believers out there. It's very cool to watch when it all clicks.

BTW ... a non believing coworker found that book on the side of the road and gave it to me. I've given it to numerous people. Some read it while others don't. I've never seen one person read it and come away saying it was all BS. I have to believe that if someone is willing to read it then God has already started working on them.  

[Pappy13]

Since some of you seem interested I'm going to link one more video of a person who I find highly enlightening. This guy is a glober who's been arguing with the flat earth community for some time, but I must say he tries to maintain a decorum when discussing the subject as best he can. He doesn't insult people at least not intentionally, it's hard to argue with someone without them feeling attacked in some ways, but he tries his best. He's also very intelligent and does a great job with using examples and such to try to explain the science as there is quite a bit of science to understand to fully appreciate the world as a globe. Below is a link to one of his videos from prior to leaving to go to Antartica. He's had a couple of videos since then some while in Antartica and some after they all returned trying to explain and debunk any misinformation, just go to his youtube page and look for his recent videos. His dog's name is Rusty.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pSU-DHNhUdg

[Pappy13]

After watching the following video, maybe I was giving flat earthers more credit than they deserved. I was under the impression there were some pretty intelligent flat earthers after hearing the debate but perhaps they really have a lot more trouble with simple concepts than I realized because some of the folks in this video are pretty clueless when it comes to math, geometry, geography, modeling, etc. Maybe they are just really good at making themselves sound smart by regurgitating the basics of the flat earth model but when really pressed on things or get them out of their comfort zone, they really struggle. This video does a great job of showing this. I got to admit I was pretty shocked that some of them couldn't understand basic geometry or geography or even that words can have multiple definitions like the word level. Whitsit's explanation of a new moon and a full moon was mind boggling. I had no clue what he was even talking about. I think he was making up words to be honest.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Zh4ze5bWLcI&t=90s

[Dave Gray]

I think if you are truly a flat-Earther, you lack serious reasoning skills to the point of being either unintelligent, disabled, or mentally unwell.

There is a certain amount of faith required to believe in anything that you can't, yourself, test -- so I have to believe that things like, pictures of Earth are actually pictures of Earth and not a grand conspiracy, having never, myself, flown to space.  But the amount of faith that it would take to disbelieve in those photos is much, much, much greater than the faith to believe in the general system that humanity is on the up an up with things like basic truths.

[Spider-Dan]

When you reject evolution, reject climate change, and reject vaccines, rejecting a spherical planet is super easy.  Go outside and look at the ground!  It's flat.

There are factions in this country that have been pushing anti-science rhetoric for decades, and we are simply reaping the rewards.

[CF DolFan]

When you reject evolution, reject climate change, and reject vaccines, rejecting a spherical planet is super easy.  Go outside and look at the ground!  It's flat.

There are factions in this country that have been pushing anti-science rhetoric for decades, and we are simply reaping the rewards.

The people you claim do nor believe actually do believe in some evolution and climate change but just not like you would want us to. Hell ..... climate change was around waaaayyyy before the Industrial revolution. We can't pay our way out of that.

Outside of the paid doctors who are pushing them, the shot stuff being dangerous gets proven more and more each week with more proof negative side effects were suppressed. Its why Fauci got a preemptive pardon. Innocent people do not get pardons let alone preemptive.