Muslim Reaction to Political Cartoons

[Phishfan]

Who pursues and prosecutes abortion clinic bombers and "fag" killers?  CHRISTIANS!

This is the difference that I'm trying to point out.  The haters are refusing to acknowledge it.

This is a blind statement. How do you know they are Christians? We have a nation of many religions. How do you know involved parties are not Jewish, Agnostic, Athiest, or even Muslim? That's right. I suggested that a Muslim could indeed see the wrong in bombing an abortion clinic. The problems in this world are based on ideas that I see in your writings...my religion is better than yours.

[run_to_win]

Okay, Phish - let's see if I have better luck communicating with you.  I'm going to be painfully clear lest my words get twisted...

but if you don't believe there are terrorists acting in the name of Christianity you are dead wrong.

I've still yet to say this.  The differences lie in the scope and organization of, support for, and reactions to.

If you truly believe that you would be completely denouncing abortion clinic bombings, sniper shootings of doctors, death threats to Terry Schiavo's husband.

All decent people, Christian or not, denounce all of this.  There's a huge step between philosophical disagreements and murder.

All of these do exist in the name of "Christianity".

Sure, but the differences many.  They're entirely domestic.  We're not exporting fanatics to carry out this treachery overseas.   They're all ferociously prosecuted.... by Christians.  Even actively supporting such causes is a prosecutable crime.  Our government is not supporting any of them. 

The majority of people who are against abortion still gasp in horror when a doctor is murdered in cold blood. 

If doctors were murdered much, much, much more often and a significant segment of our population danced in the street and praised God at every occurance while the vast majority of the rest of us just went upon our business and turned a blind eye to the reoccuring attrocities - THEN I'd see more similarities.

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To all the ranting a-holes... I disagreed with everything Phish said, responded to every point he made, and all with the same polite tone that he used.  See how it works? 

I looked for the TOS and read the FAQs,  Nowhere does it say that only Ubers and reach-around buddies can be a-holes.  If I have to back down until I'm a member of the "in crowd" then I'll gladly move along. 

Bully moderators are why I left Finheaven and Phinzmania.  (By the way - Phinzmania is a good site full of good people - just a few mods who think they're Gods).

[run_to_win]

This is a blind statement. How do you know they are Christians?  We have a nation of many religions. How do you know involved parties are not Jewish, Agnostic, Athiest, or even Muslim?

Depending on the study/poll you go by, the USA is 70%-85% Christian.  That's all I meant.

That's right. I suggested that a Muslim could indeed see the wrong in bombing an abortion clinic. The problems in this world are based on ideas that I see in your writings...my religion is better than yours.

Today it is.  It may not be tomorrow, and it probably wasn't in the Middle Ages - but today significantly more violence comes from the extremes of one religion, not all religions.

Let me use the drunken frat-boy analogy.  You go to a frat party and everyone is drinking heavily. Of the 100 frat brothers, most remain decent fellows while under the influence, while just a few get mean and obnoxious.  If one of the mean drunks picks a fight with you - many members will actively try to stop the altercation (something that until recently we didn't see in Islam).  However, if push comes to shove, the other frat brothers have the back of the a-hole even though he's in wrong.  When a fight breaks out it is very unlikely that any frat brother will engage another frat brother.  Even though one of their own started the fight, they're all either going to join the fight in support of the wrong side, or stay out entirely.   It's not a perfect analogy but hopefully it gets the idea across.  My apologies to any current/former drunken frat boys out there.

There has been more and more muslim cooperation as of late.  Some attribute that to message sent to "fight terrorism or we'll install a government who will" message sent to Afghanistan and Iraq.

[Phishfan]

Christian radicals do not have terrorist cells.

When these organizations begin homocide bombings THEN I'll see your point.

Salvation Army
Church World Service
Lutheran World Relief 
Bread for the World 
World Vision International@ 
World Relief

I wish you would put all your posts together because you jump around like crazy. Right here in this post you say Christian radicals do not have terrosit cells. Then later in this same thread (just a couple posts before this one) you claim you never said it.

[Phishfan]

To all the ranting a-holes... I disagreed with everything Phish said, responded to every point he made, and all with the same polite tone that he used.  See how it works? 

I use to have a real problem with being confrontational on here. Good to see we can disagree without name calling.

[run_to_win]

I wish you would put all your posts together because you jump around like crazy.

I just respond to whatever someone else says.

Right here in this post you say Christian radicals do not have terrosit cells. Then later in this same thread (just a couple posts before this one) you claim you never said it.

If a single unfunded abortion clinic bomber can be considered a terrorist cell then I stand corrected.

I suppose the Aryan Nations could be considered a terrorist group.  They did set off small bombs around Couer d'Alene Idaho a decade or more ago as a diversionary tactic to cover for a bank robbery - so I'm not sure if that counts as terrorism or crime.

You guys can voice your opinions all you want, but until someone politely demonstrates otherwise I'm going to continue to believe that comparing American/Christian Terrorist cells to Middle Eastern/Islamic terrorist cells is like comparing a 3rd grade game of football at recess to the NFL.

I'm not even sure the IRA is a valid comparison because they focused on British soldiers not civilians.  Plus, they're essentially defunct as a terrorism organization so even if the comparison was valid, it hasn't been for quite a few years.

[runtheball]

Who's making excuses?  I completely agree that Islam is a religion founded on violence and intolerance.  Just like Christianity (<--- this is the part you have a problem with).

If you can provide a list similar to the one at the beginning of this post for muslims, but provide it for Christian atrocities, you'll convince me of your side.  I doubt you can provide that which doesn't exist though.

You want to denounce Islam as a religion that supports atrocities?  No objection here.  But don't turn around and, in the same breath, talk about how your religion is so shiny and wholesome.
I can say the exact same thing about Christian fundamentalists and abortion clinic bombers.

How long has it been since someone bomed an abortion clinic ?  10 years ?  One death of an abortion doctor equals 3,000 people going to work at the WTC ?  Is that what you're saying ?

Where's Pat Robertson or Jerry Falwell's unequivocal denouncement of those people?  Hmmm.

Again, one death apparently equals thousands.

[Frimp]

[Dave Gray]

To anyone who doesn't think that Christianity doesn't have terrorist cells, check out the Army of God: (not safe for work)
http://armyofgod.com/

I especially find their birth control page amusing: http://armyofgod.com/Birthcontrol.html

[Spider-Dan]

If you can provide a list similar to the one at the beginning of this post for muslims, but provide it for Christian atrocities, you'll convince me of your side.  I doubt you can provide that which doesn't exist though.

Are you joking?

Do you want me to open with the Spanish Inquisition, or the Holocaust?

[run_to_win]

To anyone who doesn't think that Christianity doesn't have terrorist cells, check out the Army of God

So how many bombs have they set off in the past month? Year?  Decade?  What's the death toll?   

Are their bombs random - anyone, anywhere, anytime. 

Their literal interpretations of scripture are inciteful and that corresponds well to Islamic fanatics - but the similarities seem to end there.  They're more "Al Jeezera" than "Al Quidah". 

[run_to_win]

Spanish Inquisition - 15th century

Holocaust - please raise your hand if you don't think Hitler was among the most evil humans of the 20th century.

So our choices are going back 500+ years or considering Hitler a legitimate religious figure?

You know... he had dark hair.  Islamic fanatics have dark hair.  I wonder if THAT's the connection?  Hmmmmm.

[Spider-Dan]

run_to_win, why do you keep promising not to respond to me any more and then reneging?  Quit getting my hopes up.

Anyway, yes, the Spanish Inquisition occured in the 15th century AD.  And coincidentally, right now it just happens to be the 15th century by the Muslim calendar.  I believe I already mentioned that.

And as far as Hitler being a "legitimate" religious figure... yeah, I'd say he's about as "legitimate" as Bin Laden, whom I'm sure you have no problem pointing out as a Muslim figurehead.  In fact, if you want to go by straight endorsement numbers by religious organizations, I'd guess that Hitler probably puts Bin Laden under the table.  German Christians weren't exactly rioting over the prospect of a Germany under Christian law.  How many nations has Bin Laden been the officially recognized head-of-state of?

[run_to_win]

Anyway, yes, the Spanish Inquisition occured in the 15th century AD.  And coincidentally, right now it just happens to be the 15th century by the Muslim calendar.  I believe I already mentioned that.

You did, and much to my surprise, it was even weaker the second time. 

And as far as Hitler being a "legitimate" religious figure... yeah, I'd say he's about as "legitimate" as Bin Laden, whom I'm sure you have no problem pointing out as a Muslim figurehead.

I have absolutely no doubts that you're sure. 

Bin Laden is a terrorist figurehead.  Yes, he's a muslim figurehead.  I don't think he's an Islamic figurehead though.  Not realizing the distinction between the Muslim culture and the Islamic religion renders the rest of your post moot.

Al Qaida transcends borders which makes the head of state argument moot as well.

If Al Qaida terrorists did not actively target random women and children then you'd have a valid point. 

Likewise, if Hitler simply tried to take over the world and did not attempt genocide, he'd probably be remembered as a fair to poor military mind who almost took over Europe - not one of the most evil men of the 2nd eon.

[Spider-Dan]

Bin Laden is a terrorist figurehead.  Yes, he's a muslim figurehead.  I don't think he's an Islamic figurehead though.  Not realizing the distinction between the Muslim culture and the Islamic religion renders the rest of your post moot.

Your reply indicates that you don't know what the word "muslim" means.

By definition, "muslim" means of or relating to Islam.  So your statement that Bin Laden is a Muslim figurehead but not an Islamic figurehead is nonsensical.  The two words are precisely interchangeable.

Al Qaida transcends borders which makes the head of state argument moot as well.

The point I was making was that at no time has, does, or will Al-Qaeda's membership exceed that of WW2-era Germany (the German military alone dwarfs them).  So arguments from sheer numbers of "evildoers" wouldn't paint a pretty picture.

If Al Qaida terrorists did not actively target random women and children then you'd have a valid point.

By the same token, I could say that the Nazis were targeting "random" women and children when they bombed cities.

"Random" is a relative term.  Terrorists don't randomly select their targets.

Likewise, if Hitler simply tried to take over the world and did not attempt genocide, he'd probably be remembered as a fair to poor military mind who almost took over Europe - not one of the most evil men of the 2nd eon.

But he did.  Which is the entire reason he's in this discussion.

He systematically exterminated people of different religions (and races) and used Christianity as the moral backbone for his actions.  That pretty much qualifies him as a religiously-motivated murderer; just as much as any of the Muslim (oh, excuse me, "Islamic") terrorists of today.